New Royals manager Mike Matheny, through the eyes of Whitey Herzog and Tony La Russa
Fresh start notwithstanding and as impressive as Mike Matheny was in his first appearance as Royals’ manager, skepticism still lingers from the dismal end of his stint in the same role in St. Louis.
But it bears noting that two Hall of Fame managers who have unique and ongoing relationships with him — and the relatable experiences of also being fired from their first managerial jobs — believe Matheny will be much better-equipped now.
Because they are persuaded that he was determined to learn from what they essentially see as a rite of passage.
“Casey (Stengel) told me a long time ago, ‘When you manage in the big leagues, if you don’t die on the job or own the club, you’re going to get fired, so don’t worry about it,’” former Royals’ manager Whitey Herzog said in a phone interview, referring to the revered manager who had an enormous influence on him.
In his own words, Herzog added, “Hopefully you’re good enough that you get another chance.”
The Royals deemed Matheny worthy of that with a resume that includes leading the Cardinals to three straight National League Central titles and a World Series in six-plus seasons before being dismissed. But he was ousted in mid-2018 with the team in turmoil largely revolving around his communications and relationships — particularly with young players who complained about a short leash.
That has made for a prevailing question about his suitability for the job with a franchise dependent on the development of young talent as it seeks to emerge from back-to-back 100-loss seasons.
To some degree at his introductory news conference but especially in a session with a few reporters afterward, Matheny addressed those matters with detailed candor. He spoke convincingly about how he’d dedicated most of the last year of his life to self-improvement that included working with a media consultant to get past what he suggested was the “rigid facade” that masked his personality.
Merely getting a second chance is no assurance of anything, of course. When it was gently suggested in a phone interview that people tend to learn from their pasts, Tony La Russa interjected, “I don’t think we all do.”
But he is convinced that’s the case with Matheny, who succeeded him after the Cardinals won the 2011 World Series.
“Some people think they’ve got all the answers,” said La Russa, whose major league career was bookended here with his playing debut for the Kansas City Athletics in 1963 and managerial finale at the 2012 All-Star Game. “Then you’ll never improve or never look back, or whatever went wrong was somebody else’s fault.
“I think Mike really took a hard look at himself.”
In Whitey’s footsteps
In a sense, Matheny follows in the very path of Herzog, who became the Royals manager after he was fired by the Texas Rangers in September 1973 with a 47-91 record when Billy Martin suddenly became available.
As Matheny has said in his own case, Herzog didn’t know if he’d get another managerial job and felt “very, very” fortunate to be picked over the likes of Tommy Lasorda to manage the Royals in mid-1975.
Herzog, who like La Russa once played for the Kansas City A’s, felt more prepared the second time around because of a more harmonious alignment with the Royals’ organization (at least for a time) and because of budding stars such as George Brett and Frank White among many others. But despite his role in the first three division titles for the fledgling franchise, Herzog was fired in 1979 in ongoing conflict with then-Royals owner Ewing Kauffman.
“We were two blockheads,” said Herzog, who went on to steer the Cardinals to three National League pennants and victory in the 1982 World Series.
Matheny’s redemptive opportunity also is a trajectory familiar to La Russa, who was fired by the White Sox in his eighth season before he guided the Oakland A’s and Cardinals to great success and became the third-winningest manager in baseball history.
The firing by Chicago, La Russa said in a recent phone interview, “was really upsetting.” Particularly because he heard himself labeled “not a good motivator, not a good teacher.”
In the moment, he figured he could either mope and have “all the energy just drain from your body.” Or he could let his frustration and anger fuel him for the next chance, fix it and get it right — reminiscent of Matheny’s approach.
In La Russa’s case, the chance came only weeks later. Like Herzog, safe to say he was ready to seize the moment.
As each believes Matheny will through their own distinct perspectives.
An honest person
At Matheny’s request, Herzog spent time in consultation with him before and at his first spring training in Jupiter, Florida. They have maintained a friendship including occasional lunches and Matheny playing in Herzog’s golf tournament.
“First of all, Mike is very, very good person; he’s a very honest person,” said Herzog, laughing and adding, “He won’t ever get kicked out of a game for profanity. He’s a very religious guy, a very good Christian, but he doesn’t carry that over (unduly) to his players. He’s not like that.”
While suggesting Matheny was at least in part undone by “malcontents” in the Cardinals’ clubhouse, Herzog was struck both by how he looked in the mirror and by the way he immersed himself in every phase of the Royals’ organization over the last year.
Enough so that Herzog recalled a recent phone conversation in which Matheny expressed his excitement over several pitching prospects in Class AA Northwest Arkansas last year, presumably including 2018 first-round picks Brady Singer and Jackson Kowar.
Along the way toward addressing what Matheny called “blind spots,” Matheny took unspecified leadership classes to supplement the work he did with the media consultant — work that Herzog is pleased to know he’s done.
“I think that you’ll learn when you interview Mike, he’ll be very honest with you,” said Herzog, who recently turned 88 and reports feeling well with no complications after suffering what he characterized as a minor stroke in September. “I think he’s learned a lesson: He’s got to be more open with the press. That’s the only thing that I would see (for him to improve) here.
“As far as turning in the lineup card, managing the ballgame, he was always good at that. He’s just not a guy who’s got a lot of one-liners and (B.S.).”
Count another endorsement from La Russa, who managed Matheny with the Cardinals and considered him an “ideal teammate” and passionate competitor and natural leader.
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He, too, feels compelled by all Matheny has done in the last year.
“He has done it the right way,” said La Russa, later adding, “You’re the leader, and only you know how much of it you are directly responsible for. With the kind of character Mike has, I’m sure that process (of self-evaluation) was very honest. He probably took more on than he actually did.”
‘Handling’ the media
But there’s little doubt that Matheny struggled with how to deal with the media, something both Herzog and La Russa understood was significant to the job and that Matheny seemed to underestimate.
Predecessor Ned Yost could be confounding at times, but he seldom was truly confrontational and often offered great insights and a wit in some ways reminiscent of Herzog.
Now, Herzog was, and is, little less than a natural genius when it comes to the media. And while La Russa typically took a more measured tone than Herzog, he also understood its broader relevance beyond merely how he might have gotten along with reporters.
“There’s an art to understanding that in the sessions with the media … you are speaking to the fans through the media and you’re also speaking to the players through the media,” La Russa said.
It’s a complicated dynamic in many ways, a dance between trust and tactical advantages and motivation and transparency that is all the more challenging — and crucial — during hard times.
Of all the things that having previous managerial experience, or media training, might have helped Matheny help himself with in St. Louis, this was an area where he lost the battle of perception with a tendency toward abruptness that could come off as dismissive.
“When you lose and take it personally, then when you’re confronted with that and the press, you’re really between a rock and a hard place,” La Russa said. “Because you’re looking to explain, but (you can’t be) too critical publicly of players.”
Channeling one of his mentors, Sparky Anderson, La Russa said he’d think in terms of “what is it I can say that’s true and noteworthy and maybe even entertaining” without being too blunt or sharp. He stopped short of specifically saying he had recommended any of that to Matheny, but he may well have.
While Matheny’s penchant for stoicism masked what La Russa called “natural personality and goodness,” and while La Russa was always fascinating but at times edgy, Herzog was a master at that balance in part because of his comedic gifts.
“I always thought when I lost a game, I always had to be better, loosen up and give them more,” said Herzog, who said he thought Matheny had been “very guarded” with the press in St. Louis but believes he now understands “he has to be a little more open that way.”
‘A good front office’
Something else each believes could benefit Matheny here: now having experience and the prospect of being in sync with general manager Dayton Moore.
“It’s a good front office there,” said Herzog, who wondered aloud about what he perceived as over-reach by Cardinals GM John Mozeliak with Matheny.
La Russa was struck by how well-suited Matheny will be to work with Moore.
“I can’t say enough about the reputation, the well-deserved reputation, that Dayton has,” he said, adding that a key to the manager’s success is that “the entire organization needs to be connected” in ways he thinks the Royals are.
Regardless of that perspective, the organization remains in recovery from depleting its minor-league reserves in pursuit of worthy causes: their World Series appearances in 2014 and 2015 and winning it all the second time around.
Which makes for an ongoing time of uncertainty with new ownership imminent: Major League Baseball owners this week are expected to approve the sale of the club from David Glass to a group led by John Sherman.
And a manager ultimately can only do so much in the long slog of the season, Herzog has often said in one form or another, but certainly can be an asset.
“A manager can save a lot of games by using his personnel the right way,” he said. “And if the personnel is good enough, you’re going to win a lot of games.”
Noting players such as Whit Merrifield, Adalberto Mondesi and Jorge Soler, Herzog said, “They’re going to have a pretty good lineup, but they’ve got to get some pitching.”
In the meantime, La Russa said, all you can do is all you can do. The manager can set a tone by getting the team to play with energy and passion every day and by teaching and encouraging execution regardless of results.
“A lot of that stuff goes way beyond your talent,” La Russa said. “It goes to your frame of mind.”
A frame of mind that will be a reflection of Matheny, who like Herzog and La Russa has every chance to be better at the job the second time around.