Sitting down with Rep. Emanuel Cleaver
A day after Ralph Yarl left the hospital to recover at home after being shot twice when he mistakenly rang the wrong doorbell in Kansas City’s Northland, I sat down with Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, a Kansas City Democrat, in the Capitol to talk about the situation.
The Clay County prosecutor had brought charges against the 84-year-old Andrew Lester and President Joe Biden had called Yarl and his family to offer his prayers, but it was before Lester turned himself into the police.
Cleaver, who recently underwent knee surgery, sat in a leather armchair in the Speaker’s Lobby, a room off to the side of the House chamber where members can sit during long stretches of votes. The conversation has been edited for clarity and condensed for length.
Daniel Desrochers: Do you think it took too long to bring charges?
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver: No.
I know there are people at home who are angry over how long it took.
But I think it’s important for us to understand two things: the police and the prosecutor could not afford to make a mistake. I told the chief yesterday that she had passed her first great challenge in a glowingly successful way. She had her investigators out there getting all of the information that they could get, going up and down the streets, talking to people and so forth.
And I think when you bring a case like this you’ve got to have everything going. Because as the prosecutor said, there is a racial element to it and you can’t blow this.
So I’m saying to everybody that I know, particularly a lot of young people who didn’t like it, that we can satisfy our own desires for retribution, or we can see a man who clearly doesn’t need to be free on the streets taken to court.
And I’m not angry, as are some, that they didn’t file hate crime charges. All we could get would be some additional years on conviction. And at 84, any sentence, almost, would be a life sentence. And so why? You put hate into the discussion, and you may start losing some people in that community who were sympathetic. I mean, most of those people are good, decent people. And so they can conclude that’s not right, the kid walks up to his porch and he gets shot and then he falls down and you shoot him again.
When you bring in the word hate, we’ve got a whole new argument.
Desrochers: So where’s that line between racially motivated and hate? Because clearly it feels like it was racially charged.
Cleaver: And racism is hatred based on race.
Look, I want a conviction. And why would we want to bring hate into the conversation that people are already saying is a very conservative area from which a jury must be selected. So why start debating whether it’s a hate crime?
The guy has been charged. The police are looking for him now. If he can’t post bond he’s gonna go to jail. And if he’s convicted, he’s gonna go to jail.
So I think we’ve got to be a lot more strategic, even those of us who consider ourselves activists. We’ve got to be smart.
I just don’t think we need to taint the atmosphere with an argument over hate, because most people have defined race in a way that is favorable to themselves. That’s why we have trouble finding any racists. You have to look far and wide to find one.
Desrochers: Have you talked to the family?
Cleaver: No
Desrochers: What do you make of President Biden talking to him?
Cleaver: I was pleased that they made that phone call to the young man. I thought that was a stroke of genius. And that’s kind of who Biden is, though, not to talk to parents we want to talk to the kid.
Desrochers: This whole thing, it intersects with all these different conversations. We’re talking about race relations. We’re talking about gun laws. I mean, this kid gets thrust into the center of what’s a national conversation.
Cleaver: And doesn’t deserve it.
Every major domestic problem that we have has been pulled into this.
Whether it’s immigration which, interpreted to me, is the “other.” We’ve got politics, we’ve got the issue of the laws that are being passed by state legislatures. Stand Your Ground is creating all kinds of opportunities for people to kill each other.
And then the gun controversy. This is another example where we have plenty of guns, and we were fortunate that this guy just didn’t have a semi-automatic weapon. Anything but a 32 probably would have annihilated the kid, those bullets explode on the inside.
And race relations. And this abnormal fear “black guy on my porch, this is bad I gotta kill him, I gotta shoot him.”
I think we could write a textbook out of this issue after the trial.
More from Missouri
After the shooting of Ralph Yarl, anger built among some activists and Democrats that Missouri’s gun laws had created a culture where people feel free to shoot first and ask questions later. Republicans, who have helped pass some of the least restrictive gun policies in the country, have no intention of making those laws stricter in the near future.
Here are headlines from across the state:
Missouri self-defense laws criticized in wake of Ralph Yarl shooting, Jonathan Shorman and Kacen Bayless
Republicans said abortion rules should be up to the states. Instead they’re in the courts, Daniel Desrochers
Democrat Kunce focuses on Hawley’s Jan. 6 actions in Senate campaign. It’s paying off, Daniel Desrochers
After days of silence, Missouri Gov. Parson accuses Biden of politicizing Yarl shooting, Kacen Bayless
Trans Missourians fear AG’s rules will restrict care for adults, minors, Kacen Bayless
And across Kansas
Gov. Laura Kelly vetoed a bill that would have required telling patients they could reverse the effect of an abortion pill, a claim that’s disputed by medical professionals. It’s the second abortion-related bill Kelly vetoed this session and it comes as the future of an abortion pill — mifepristone — is being considered by the courts.
Kelly vetoes bill requiring doctors to provide ‘abortion reversal’ info, Katie Bernard and Jonathan Shorman
Kansas approves measures to manage water crisis. Advocates, experts say it isn’t enough, Jenna Barackman and Katie Bernard
Sharice Davids easily won reelection last year. How come she’s still a target for the GOP? Daniel Desrochers
Laura Kelly vetoes bill that would eliminate grace period for mail ballots, Jonathan Shorman
How did KS and MO members of Congress vote on banning trans women athletes? Daniel Desrochers
The latest from Kansas City
In Kansas City …
Calls grow for a reckoning on racism in Northland after Yarl shooting, Jonathan Shorman and Anna Spoerre
Grandson says Andrew Lester bought into conspiracies, disinformation, Judy L. Thomas and Luke Nozicka
How this Kansas Citian went from selling T-shirts out of his car to opening his store, J.M. Banks
Have a news tip? Send it along to ddesrochers@kcstar.com
Odds and ends
Moran on leaks
After a Massachusetts National Guardsman leaked scores of classified documents over the past few months, Sen. Jerry Moran said this week he wants to see Congress do something to prevent it from happening again.
Though he hasn’t said what that legislation would look like.
Moran, newly a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said he was troubled by how much the 21-year-old Jack Teixeira was able to access.
“I think this is devastating, deadly, a disaster in the making,” Moran said. “And I am most interested in how we can have these certain security classifications designed to keep people who shouldn’t have information from having it, and still this person had information, presumably that he should not have had, and leaked it.”
There’s not complete agreement among the Senate about a need for legislation. Sen. Lindsay Graham, a South Carolina Republican, said earlier this week that the leak was a leadership problem, not a security clearance problem.
“There is no congressional act that can solve this,” Graham told Punchbowl News’ Andrew Desiderio. “There’s no law. How can you have a system where somebody who is at this level can apparently take stuff home and nobody know about it? That’s not a law problem. That’s a leadership problem.”
Thomas troubles
Rep. Cori Bush called for the impeachment of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas earlier this week, after ProPublica reporting showed that Thomas failed to disclose extravagant trips paid for by his friend Harlan Crow.
Thomas also failed to disclose a real-estate transaction where Thomas, his mother and the family of his late brother sold a stretch of houses for $133,363. Crow said he purchased the house, where Thomas grew up, for posterity.
“It is clear that Justice Thomas holds a complete disregard for law and ethics that is incompatible with the trust and confidence placed in federal judges,” Bush wrote. “For these reasons, and because the federal judiciary has failed to hold Justice Thomas accountable, I am calling for impeachment proceedings to begin regarding Justice Thomas’s apparent violations of federal law.”
It’s unlikely Bush will be impeached in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives. But there has been talk in the Democratic-controlled Senate to tighten ethics laws for the Supreme Court and to force Thomas to testify before a Senate committee.
Sen. Josh Hawley, a Missouri Republican, said calls to force Thomas to testify were “terrible.”
“Think what a terrible precedent that would set because the gavel will change in 2024,” Hawley said. “We’re going to control the Senate. And how would you like to see us march Democrat Supreme Court justices in front of the committee every time we disagree with them on something.”
Magic meeting
Earlier this month, the National Republican Senatorial Committee put out a tweet about Lucas Kunce, a Democrat who’s looking to challenge Hawley in 2024.
“NERD ALERT:” it said, linking to an article in the conservative Free Beacon. “Democrat Senate Candidate @LucasKunceMO Likes Magic the Gathering, Was First Male Cheerleader at Yale.”
Kunce confirmed both on twitter, saying “guilty.” (For those who could have sworn George W. Bush was a cheerleader at Yale, he was. But apparently there’s a distinction for the modern iteration of the Yale cheerleading squad.)
The exchange drew the attention of Time reporter Mini Racker who knows how to play Magic the Gathering. Kunce apparently beat her pretty easily.
Not to out-nerd them or anything, but I’ve been learning how to play bridge. Unfortunately I don’t think anyone younger than Joe Biden is playing that on the campaign trail anymore.
Happy Friday
Read this about breakfast at the new Tiffany’s. I have a friend who swears that a Dark ‘n’ Stormy is the perfect drink for when the sun is going down on a warm day. I just got a bunch of old records from my grandparents and so I’ve been listening to Fernand Gignac.
Enjoy your weekend.
Looking for more?
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