Kansas lawmakers are supposed to vet bills in committees. But are their hearings fair?
Last month, the Kansas House K-12 Budget Committee inserted a provision into an education bill that would require local school boards to give parents the opportunity to speak at public meetings.
A day earlier, the committee had held a tense hearing on the “Parent’s Bill of Rights and Transparency Act,” sweeping legislation designed to grant parents greater control and knowledge of the material taught in public classrooms. Republican supporters intend to tie the legislation to funding for public schools.
Supporters and opponents of the bill were limited to 30 minutes on each side to make their case. Only three supporters showed up and each got 10 minutes to speak. The dozens of teachers and lobbyists there to testify against it received just two minutes each.
Some lawmakers saw a double standard.
“We should not use our power of the purse … to try and force volunteer school boards to try to do something that we ourselves are not willing to do,” Rep. Jo Ella Hoye, a Lenexa Democrat, said.
The hearing highlights what lawmakers and lobbyists say are unfair practices by some legislative committees that either limit public comment or tip the scales in the favor of bills supported by the Republican majority. The recent episodes contribute to a growing sense of frustration with the operation of the committees, where powerful chairs exercise near-total control.
In early February, the Senate Utilities chair, Sen. Mike Thompson, banned from testifying an environmental engineer opposed to a wind energy bill Thomspson was pushing. The decision was later reversed under pressure.
In another Senate committee, the chair refused to allow a Democratic senator who had joined a meeting virtually to speak. It was an aggressive enforcement of a pandemic-era committee rule that excludes senators from participating when they aren’t in the Capitol.
While these instances could be written off as political inside baseball, committees serve a crucial function. In theory, the Legislature’s 48 committees are supposed to serve as a first check on bills, allowing lawmakers to carefully vet them before they’re sent to the House or Senate floor.
But in practice, Republican chairs — appointed by House and Senate leaders — are able to determine what voices are heard, what bills move forward and even push policy pieces without a public hearing. Some Democrats and lobbyists complain that these practices allow Republicans to paint a false picture of public opinion and stifle debate when convenient.
“Some committee chairs go out of their way to be fair and even handed. Other committee chairs do the exact opposite. They go out of their way to be completely unfair and make sure they give their favorite side an advantage in the committee hearing process,” said Tom Witt, a longtime lobbyist for Equality Kansas, an LGBTQ advocacy group.
Witt pointed to the K-12 Budget Committee hearing as an example. The committee chair, Augusta Republican Rep. Kristey Williams, gave both sides equal time even though there were far more opponents than supporters present.
“We weren’t even allowed to finish a sentence at the end of our two minutes. We were just cut off and told to go sit down,” Witt said.
Williams said her management of the committee is a consequence of elections that have given Republicans supermajorities in the Legislature.
“I would argue that if I were a Republican in Congress right now I would not be a chairman, I would have limited ability to make a contribution and that is the process,” Williams said. “You’re never going to make everyone happy. It’s a process by which we have a supermajority … it’s not my fault that more Kansans are Republicans and they voted into office more Republicans.”
What’s fair?
As chair of the committee and lead sponsor of the Parents’ Bill of Rights, Williams said she could have found 40 or more people to come in and testify in support. She said she chose not to take that route.
“Giving the same amount of time, I can’t believe anybody would argue that that’s not fair,” Williams said.
Senate President Ty Masterson, an Andover Republican, said he encourages committee chairs to give even voice to both sides.
“Sometimes that gets misinterpreted,” Masterson. “I’ve had a day set aside for proponents and only three showed up and a day set aside for opponents and 15 showed up.”
“To maintain order in those types of discussions, any type of discussion particularly with tense material you have to have somebody that has the ability to control that conversation just to maintain order.”
Zack Pistora, a lobbyist for the Kansas Sierra Club, said he’s experienced both the upsides and pitfalls of hearings where time is equally divided. Equal time means limited time to talk – potentially forcing lobbyists and citizens on one side of a bill to coordinate who will speak in what order and what message they’ll share.
When there’s a lot of people testifying on your side of an issue who get only a small amount of time, it’s tough to provide an in-depth view of the issue, he said. On the other hand, “you get to showcase your popular support.”
Republicans and Democrats both said the committee process is designed to benefit the majority party and that how a committee runs, and what voices are heard, is largely left to the discretion of the chairperson.
House Minority leader Tom Sawyer, a Wichita Democrat, said the process often follows the makeup of the Legislature. Committee chairs and the majority party, always wield major influence, he said, but that becomes more pronounced when the margins between the majority and minority are larger. In recent years, he said, some chairs had acted more like “kings” than leaders of a committee.
Rep. Stephanie Byers, a Wichita Democrat, characterized Williams’ style as more dictatorial. Over the summer Williams chaired an interim committee on education issues like critical race theory and pandemic response in school. Frustrated parents were invited to testify but satisfied parents were not.
“We see that over and over again. We see the hearings being prepped in such a way that if it’s negative to the public education community when proponents walk in they’re prepped with everything and opponents, we’re lucky sometimes if we get more than the 24 hours we need to get our testimony in to know what’s coming up,” Byers said.
Chairs provide ‘triage’
The Republican majority’s power over committees also extends to rules. In the pandemic era, as more lawmakers utilize virtual options for attending hearings, most committees have allowed remote participation but barred voting if a lawmaker is not physically in the Capitol.
Chairs retain power to enforce those rules. When Sen. David Haley, a Kansas City Democrat, sought to ask questions in a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that he was attending remotely, Sen. Kellie Warren, the chair, told him it was a violation of committee rules. Haley was permitted to listen in on the meeting but could not provide input as the committee passed a series of bills out to the Senate floor.
Rep. Susan Concannon, the Republican chair of the House Children and Seniors committee, said she believes in the process but had seen it be abused when chairs stifle debate, block bills from hearing and grant unequal time to proponents and opponents of legislation. Still, she described instances of unfairness as rare.
“The chair has to triage,” Concannon said. “I absolutely believe in the process and think it’s right and fair when it’s done right. In 10 years I’ve only had a couple of chairs that I thought were maybe unfair.”
Early each session, committees often hold informational hearings with invited guests. In 2022 that included days set aside for hearings on election integrity featuring prominent conspiracists in the Senate Federal and State Affairs committee and hearings on the supposed dangers of wind power in the Senate Utilities Committee.
Sen Mike Thompson, a Shawnee Republican who chairs the utilities panel, said he viewed those hearings as a way to level the playing field for interests that don’t have as much lobbying power as the wind industry in Kansas.
“Around here the way a lot of things happen is lobbyists will bring a bill and they will lobby various senators on the bill,” Thompson said. “The informational hearings are an effort to actually provide the other side because a lot of these people who are on the other side of these issues don’t have lobbyists, don’t have the money backed efforts.”
“In my mind that gives the committee a balanced look at it.”
In early February Thompson, a staunch denier of climate change, banned a Canadian scientist from testifying because he felt he had misrepresented testimony. Thompson later reversed that decision but warned committee members to be cautious of what they heard from the scientist.
Sen. Marci Francisco, a Lawrence Democrat on the Utilities Committee, said a lack of balance blocked the panel from feeling comfortable moving forward with any wind legislation.
“It certainly stood in the way of getting to any kind of compromise,” Francisco said. “And often without a compromise you can’t move forward.”
This story was originally published March 1, 2022 at 5:00 AM.
